Of course they did. This city is still so divided it makes me sick.
I qualify for public housing. I also qualify for other forms of public assistance.
I can only imagine what Jesus would have said in that public meeting to the people who voice their prejudices that way…
I’m saddened by this reaction, and I wonder why more people aren’t.
23 April 2009 at 12:29 am
good thoughts, friend… people’s issues are, well, interesting, to say the least…
23 April 2009 at 1:19 am
So do you live in section 8?
23 April 2009 at 1:52 am
I feel there are two responses to this loaded question. If the anonymous person who asked knows me, then you know the answer to that question. If you stumbled blindly into this blog, I apologize and would ask that you contact me for the lowdown on my living arrangement.
As for the statement that I qualify for public assistance, it is a comment that is intended as a rebuke to the stereotypical images, specifically in the comment thread of the article, that are given to the individuals who have experienced a life most of us will never know.
I do know this, though- Jesus is about, plain and simple, social justice (among other things). If I am to live like Jesus then I need to help in any way I can to address issues of social injustice. That manifests itself in many, many ways and I am more than convicted in my lack of ability to meet more of those needs. What I can do, however, is continue to live where and how I live, bring to light the hypocrisy that exists in situations like this, and make a point of asking others to examine how different their lives are compared to the individuals who have no other options or choices.
This is a messed up world. This is a messed up city. If any of it is to move closer into ‘understanding’ and acceptance (bringing that division gap closer instead of continuing to polarize and separate communities), then it has to leave behind the prejudices and biases and work together to make a better, more ‘whole’ community experience.
23 April 2009 at 3:57 pm
I don’t get your point. Are you saying they are being racist or hate poor people?
Do you understand what this type of housing does to home values? Have you researched it? Do you even own a home? And how can you qualify for Section 8 housing? Do you not have a job? Do you have a family? Children? So someone without a home or job or a family is trying to tell people with homes and jobs and families how to live?
I am from the Westside and I have seen this kind of crap destroy neighborhoods.
For someone who knows very litte, you sure do talk a lot.
23 April 2009 at 6:08 pm
Perhaps I’m saying there is a bit of racism and hatred of poor people from the residents.
As to any further response, I will conclude with this:
-If you consider yourself a follower of Jesus I would respectfully ask you to revisit the Biblical teachings and approaches to poverty.
-If you don’t consider yourself a follower of Jesus, then this discussion will only be an exercise in one-upman-ship which I haven’t the time or desire to engage you in (particularly via blog comments). If this is a conversation that is convicting you to have, then I will make myself available for a sitdown.
I will pray for you regardless of your leanings. Have a wonderful weekend.
24 April 2009 at 3:22 pm
Steve,
It is Eric Dunn, not the “anonymous” anonymous. My only comment to your post would be this: If public housing does not produce issues in a community, then why have they spent the last 10 years essentially eradicating downtown of poeverty and homelessness. I witnessed this first hand at City Gospel Mission. There was a concerted effort by the city to sweep poverty and homeless issues out to the southern suburbs (maybe a suburb that “anonymous” lives in). Why would they do this?
If you qualify for public housing, I challenge you to move into Section 8 housing. Live there for a few years, begin raising a family, and report back what you find. I am not being sarcastic–I am serious. By actually living there, you would be better able to judge those who are working hard so they can raise families in a safe environment and object to this plan. You can also make a better judgement as to how Jesus would react to the situation. In short, it would give you better perspective.
Just my thoughts…
Eric
24 April 2009 at 3:50 pm
This may be obvious, but maybe they don’t want you moving into the neighborhood because they know about your clothing optional block parties?
24 April 2009 at 3:50 pm
So what you’re saying is that following the Biblical principles in approaching poverty issues is right…until it comes into my own neighborhood?
It makes me sad that people are more worried about their property values than their salvation. I live in a largely low-income area as it is and have a long term plan to be a permanent resident of the city. I know very well what risks I am taking by continuing to live where I live. I know what I am giving up to be neighbors with people who rely on assistance. I know what my family will be a part of inside the context of that plan (and if you want to call me an idiot for endangering my family then I encourage you to show up at my door and say it to me directly.)
Eric, anonymous, et al., it is really funny to hear these criticisms about how little I know about the reality of public assistance when it appears to be very easy for you to make these comments from the suburban bubble. I assume, then, that you do know what it is to live long term in low-income neighborhoods, HUD communities, and participate in public assistance? If you do, then I’m more than interested in knowing what your experience(s) have been and how they have impacted your thoughts in approaching those Biblical teachings. I will assume that your experiences will be first hand experiences, of course, or your credibility in making your convictions known regarding my ignorance in such matters is more than lost.
I’m open to hearing what your facts, what your evidence, and what your solutions to the problem are.
As for moving people out of the highly concentrated areas of downtown and O-T-R to spreading and integrating them with middle and high income communities, the research has shown that those communities foster greater feelings of success among the HUD recipients and they have a higher transition to home ownership and community pride-both of which creates a win-win for the community as a whole.
25 April 2009 at 8:27 am
Wait, I need to apologize. I reread that last comment, and while I stand behind most of what I have said, I do wish that I had waited a little while longer before responding.
First, Eric, I know that you are not the ‘anonymous’ individual(s) because you will always sign your name and challenge me directly. I have always appreciated and respected you for that.
I am genuinely more interested in hearing your experiences with City Gospel Mission and why you are no longer participating in their community (I assume based upon the past tense verbs in your comment).
As for the suburban bubble comment, I am sorry for speaking out of frustration and anger. I would, however, like to know what your solution(s) to the HUD issue would be. It seems that I can’t have an opinion or desire to speak of the injustice displayed in the prejudiced community response because I have lived in a low-income area instead of living in section 8 housing. By that same measure, there are many topics that should then be removed from discussion since we don’t have first-hand experience. Oddly enough, it doesn’t stop many things from erupting into firestorms and division.
And Murph, if anything, the clothing optional parties are what makes it all worth while. When will we be seeing you again?
25 April 2009 at 9:52 am
Show up at your door and say it to you directly? What, are you going to fight us if we do? That seems pretty biblical.
You are the reason religious people annoy me. You never answered my question, but I assume you don’t have a family. And you said you live in a low income neighborhood, but not section 8.
So you have no first hand experience with any of this and you throw the bible in my face. Are you wearing your wwjd bracelet?
You don’t have to worry about looking out the front window and seeing your little girl playing ten feet from a drug deal. Or watching disgusting men try to pick up your wife because they think she’s “working” when she takes the dog out for a walk.
Keep sitting in your church and blogging about crap you know nothing about.
25 April 2009 at 10:00 am
Nope. I would not fight you. I would just appreciate the courtesy of you showing up and saying to me. I live in a house that is 300 yards from prostitution, drug abuse, and gunshots that ring on a regular basis. I also live with a family that is raising two boys, 4-3 years of age respectfully, and have neighbors with kids. As for my own family, I am pretty secure in my feelings for our long term plans as it has been discussed at length.
I don’t wear a wwjd bracelet. And I didn’t throw my Bible in your face. I’m just offering a level playing field so you know where my response and anger comes from. It’s clear that you have no interest in engaging fruitfully in the discussion so this will be my last response to anything you write.
26 April 2009 at 11:43 pm
seems like the anonymous dude has run into ‘church’ folks in the past that have talked a big game about loving and serving the less fortunate but haven’t done much to back it up. that sucks. the reaction isn’t too surprising to me.
steve, you certainly aren’t those folks, and this person doesn’t know that. despite arguing on the internet being dumb, you actually are doing what you talk about, living out the things you say you care about, and that’s fairly rare. come to think of it, you and dunner are the only two of my good friends that are followers of Jesus and that have gone and done work directly with the poor and homeless.
i do want to touch on one point you made, “It makes me sad that people are more worried about their property values than their salvation.” i feel like i’m seeing more of that attitude come out since the recession started. especially from people who are traditional ‘church folks’. i wonder if those people are panicking because they’re watching their 401k’s evaporate, the housing market disappear, and they’re reacting in self-interest, fearful that they won’t be taken care of. an understandable human reaction, that’s unworthy of someone who believes in a God that is supposed to provide for and take care of his children…
sorry this got so serious. you said ‘hole’.
28 April 2009 at 7:38 pm
Steve,
I was on staff at City Gospel Mission for two years after I stopped leading at Mt. Healthy. The stories I have from that period are two numerous to recount on this blog, but I will say that it changed the way I view homelessmess/poverty and helped put faces to a problem. Almost everyone I dealt with had either a substance abuse problem, mental health issue, or, surprisingly, a child support problem. Of course some had all three.
I did feel safe during my time there because I knew almost everyone in the area, and I had the respect of most people, especially those who “ran things.” The only time I did not feel safe was when I got caught in the middle of the riots (good story). However, I was also in my early twenties, single, and had nothing to lose.
I am not sold on the Jesus argument to this topic because I am not sure how Jesus would respond to welfare, public housing, etc, but I do know that he would be in favor of helping those who are handicapped, including the mentally ill and drug/alcohol abusers. HOW we help them? I am not sure what He would say.
I do not know anonymous, but I can understand where he is coming from. Once again, I will point to the city’s actions against “those people” and ask again why they would systematically erradicate these issues from the city limits if everything was so postive. But I also understand what you are saying as well. We have to do something and put these developments somewhere. To be honest, I am glad these are not my decisions to make.
Finally, I do not think this is a race issue, but I do think it is a class issue. I saw as many screwed up white folks in OTR as I did black, hispanic, etc. The problems that poverty tends to bring are color blind. I do not think these people want these issues, period, no matter how light or dark the skin of those that bring them to their neighborhood.
Eric
28 April 2009 at 8:15 pm
Eric,
It seems like you danced right around my point. Steve likes to take off his clothes during block parties. This could start riots. You, of all people, should stand on my side and fight against this happening. Think of the children.
Sean
28 April 2009 at 10:01 pm
Eric,
You brought up some interesting things about CGM. Recently, I went to a CGM presentation, Understanding Poverty. I believe they are doing it again, or something along those lines on May 23rd (please verify). I would highly recommend it to everyone (esp everyone engaged in this heated blog)!
Courtney
29 April 2009 at 7:19 am
I was going to let the whole naked block party thing go–what is the story behind that? Is he involved in the Naked Pumokin Run they have in Colorado every year, where people run naked through the streets with pumpkins on their heads? Yes, that happens in the USA.
29 April 2009 at 9:09 am
Why won’t you just let me be me? So I like to make October self awareness month and part of self awareness is having a naked block party. What better way to get over the stigma of being one of America’s hair-covered sons?
As for running around with a pumpkin on my head while doing it? That’s just a little bit weird.
30 April 2009 at 8:18 pm
hey, i made a mistake and didn’t catch another comment made for this post. it’s listed above by Justin Hall and buried in between some other things.
That’s my fault JW, and I apologize for the mistake.
30 April 2009 at 8:48 pm
no biggie dude. except now the discussion isn’t so tense and i’m kind of a buzzkill.
how bout this. a neutron walks into a bar and orders a beer, bartender pours it and slides it to him. neutron pulls out his wallet to pay, but the bartender holds up his hand and says “No charge!”
nerd jokes, WORD